Thursday, February 28, 2013

WRS & Insurance Deductions

By: Tonya Williams
Employee Relations Specialist

Many teachers have inquired as to when they will start paying their employee portion of WRS.  Teachers can expect to see this deduction taken out of their checks in September 2013. 

Contribution rates for most Wisconsin Retirement System (WRS) employees and employers is 13.3% ; therefore, the employee portion of the WRS is 6.65% from each payroll.

To determine the amount taken from payroll use the following formula:

Annual Salary multiplied by .0665 divided by 24 (number of checks) = Payroll Deduction

Example of Employee with $25,000 Salary:   $25,000 x .0665÷24=$69.27/Each Payroll

A new plan design for the health insurance is recommended to take effect September 1.  The plan design, however, has not been approved by the Board of Education because the final decision on Act 10 is still hung up in the courts.  Once the new plan design is approved, employees will start paying 10% of what the health insurance premium is.  Once again, employees will pay ten percent of what the health insurance premium is not ten percent of their salary. The premiums range from $39.26 up to $126.30 per month.  The highest amount that anyone will pay for health insurance under the new plan design is $126.30 per month.

If you have any questions regarding your WRS contribution and insurance premiums, please contact Tonya Williams at 743-5021 or

Wednesday, February 27, 2013

What's Right in the School District of Janesville

What’s Right in the School District of Janesville (SDJ) is a forum to recognize outstanding performances and achievements by SDJ employees, students and schools. Each week, between now and the end of the school year, SDJ will focus on positive achievements from a specific school.

Marshall Teacher Nominated for Award

Dan Emerson has been nominated for Music Educator for the third annual Janesville Area Creativity Awards.  He is in a category with 4 other nominees. 

Janesville Graduate presents to Life Science Students

On January 15, 8th grade science teacher, Jennifer Williams and former student, Kyle Knopes, did a presentation on Stem Cells. Kyle also spoke about the stem cell treatment he received in China and his genetic disease, Spinal Muscular Atrophy (SMA).  This is the 4th year that Kyle has come back to present to Mrs. Williams’ 8th grade Life Science students at Marshall.

Marshall Orchestra Student to Attend National Conference

Hailee Christianson, a 6th grade orchestra student, was selected to attend "The Junior National Young Leaders Conference” in Washington D.C.  To be nominated, you must be a high achieving student in all areas of education.  Marshall Orchestra Teacher Ruth Banwell nominated Hailee.  She will be attending this conference over spring break this year.

Marshall Student to be Published for Poetry

Lauren Ramsdell, Marshall 6th grader, has won the Southern Lakes Anthology Writing Contest for her poetry submission. She will be published in the Anthology and honored at a reception at UW-Whitewater in the spring.

Computer Innovations Classes Participate in “Valentines for Vets”

The Computer Innovations classes, under the direction of Teachers Jan Wagner and Deb O'Leary at Edison, Franklin and Marshall participated in the National event, “Valentines For Vets.”  After discussing the definition of a Veteran, students used Microsoft Publisher to create cards wishing veterans a Happy Valentine’s Day and thanking them for serving our country and keeping them safe.  Along with enthusiasm to create these cards, it was nice to see the sixth graders understand the importance of this program and thanking veterans for all they have done to serve our country.  The cards were sent to the William S. Middleton Memorial Veterans Hospital in Madison, WI.

Tuesday, February 26, 2013

Teachers Are Key to Building STEM Opportunities

STEM ~ Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics

Even with the numerous conversations surrounding STEM jobs and opportunities, there has been difficulty in exciting and inspiring enough students to pursue a science, technology, engineering, or math career, experts say.
While many of the discussions focus on funding, after-school programs, and finding ways to increase the buzz around STEM, the practice of engaging teachers to pursue STEM-related teaching jobs has been lost in the conversation, Tanya Van Court, a senior vice president at Discovery Education told attendees at the U.S. News STEM SOLUTIONS summit in Dallas Friday.
"We haven't talked about the teachers very much and the roles they should be playing in STEM," Van Court says. "We cannot excite these kids without the right kind of talent in the classroom."
In today's society, students are growing up as digital natives, relying on technology to communicate, collaborate, and learn. But most high schools are not embracing this change in student behavior, notes Judah Schiller, founder and CEO of Aiko, a brand management agency.
"Schools are asking students to drop their personal lives and do it the 'school way,'" Schiller says. "Education has been doing it the same way for [many] years."
Instead of continuing this trend, teachers should be immersing themselves in these new technologies, Van Court notes. Students will increasingly become more technologically savvy, she says, and teachers need to keep up with the innovations.
"Students are very excited about the technologies they are using, but then they come to school and are asked to put them aside," she notes. "The only way we are going to have a shot at bridging the gap is figuring out how to get teachers the support to use these 21st century tools to inspire 21st century learning."
To promote this change and get more teachers involved in STEM education, teachers should be speaking with their peers in the field. There is a universal fear among many teachers that STEM is a difficult set of topics to teach, she says, and starting conversations to alleviate these fears is vital to the future of STEM in the classroom.
"We need other teachers telling them their stories about how fun STEM is, [and] how they're transforming teaching," Van Court advises. "It is a class of students collaborating, solving problems, and working together, [but] it's not enough to excite students--we really need to reach teachers."
This blog was published by US News and World Report ~ Author Ryan Little
For more information, please visit:

Monday, February 25, 2013

The Superintendent Chronicle: A Week in Review

To stay consistent with our focus on transparency, I believe that it is important to keep district staff and the community up-to-date on the decisions that are being made. I will be reporting each Monday, through this blog, on the important events that occurred the previous week in a series titled “The Superintendent Chronicle: A Week in Review”. This blog reviews what was a high priority for me the week before and explains the “why” behind important district decisions.

  1. Meeting with UW Rock County Dean Carmen Wilson to explore strategic alliance relationship 
  2. Meeting with Administrator Gary Albrecht to explore strategic alliance relationship 
  3. Meeting with Chancellor, Provost, Dean and Director at UW-Whitewater to explore strategic alliance relationship 
  4. Constant monitoring and planning with Monroe school leadership team and Principal Kuehne for short term steps and planning to keep Monroe on a positive path. 
  5. Oversight of preparation for OPEB study and discussion. 
  6. Oversight of preparation for the staffing plan

Thursday, February 21, 2013

Make the Commitment to Always Use a Primary Care Physician

By: Tonya Williams, Employee Relations Specialist
School District of Janesville

There is no better time than now to begin a relationship with a Primary Care Physician (PCP)!  A PCP can be a family physician, a general practitioner, or an internal medicine doctor.  Your children may have a pediatrician as a PCP, and while she is pregnant, a woman may have her OB/GYN as her PCP.  Your members in your family do not need to have the same PCP. 

Under the District’s Coordinated Health Care Plan (CHC), you will have your deductible waived, and your office visit covered at 85 percent when you use a PCP.  If you go to a specialist without a referral, you will pay $100 for your deductible and 80 percent for your office visit.  If you use the referral process, your office visits continue to be covered at 85% and your deductible waived.  Currently there is 52 percent of District staff utilizing a PCP; this is an increase from 34 percent in 2011.  The District saved $444,568 in claim costs because members are using CHC’s referral service and utilizing PCPs.  The District stands to save even more if we can increase our PCP utilization and decrease specialist usage, so begin a relationship with a PCP today!

*Actual claims from my family to illustrate the savings I experience by using a PCP, and even a nurse practitioner, versus a specialist.
Claim Cost
Network Savings
Deductible Paid
Paid %
Patient Responsibility
Nurse Practitioner
$147.43 (Inc. Ded.)

If you would like assistance in finding a PCP, please contact CHC at 1-877-550-3455 or go to

Wednesday, February 20, 2013

What's Right in the School District of Janesville

What’s Right in the School District of Janesville (SDJ) is a forum to recognize outstanding performances and achievements by SDJ employees, students and schools. Each week, between now and the end of the school year, SDJ will focus on positive achievements from a specific school.

TAGOS Leadership Academy Compliments Facebook Page

TAGOS Advisor Nic Manogue started a “Compliments” page for TAGOS on Facebook.  Anyone with a Facebook account can submit compliments and they will be anonymously posted on the page.  Great idea Nic!

What’s Right in the Food and Nutrition Department?

The School District of Janesville Food and Nutrition staff did an outstanding job this year on the annual RCHD safety and sanitation inspections.  Inspections started in late September and finished at Craig High School on November 13th.  The average score for the 2012-13 school year was 96.47, an increase from last year’s average score of 94.89.

Monica Burkheimer, Wilson Elementary, has done an incredible job in food safety and sanitation scores with a 99 the last two years!  Monica has maintained this excellent score while serving 900+ meals and snacks daily.  Jill Case, Madison Elementary, also joined the 99 club this year while serving 1,050+ meals and snacks!  Theresa Gagg, Harrison Elementary, had the largest increase in score from 90 last year to a 98 this year.  I would also like to thank Elise Allen and Annie Lobrano for receiving scores of 97 at Craig HS and Parker HS.  A 97 at a high school is no small achievement!  

Tuesday, February 19, 2013

State Raises the Proficiency Bar for WKCE Performance

By Dr. Kim Ehrhardt, Director of Curriculum, Instruction and Assessment

Each year in Wisconsin, public school students in grades 3-8 and 10 take the Wisconsin Knowledge and Concepts Examinations (WKCE) for mathematics and reading.  The results of these annual assessments provide vital information for students, parents, and educators.

As we have previously communicated (starting in the 2012-13 school year), Wisconsin is raising the benchmark scores needed for students to reach the proficient or advanced performance levels.  These new college and career readiness proficiency levels are based on the National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP).

The School District of Janesville and the State of Wisconsin are on a rapid trajectory toward higher standards.  This includes implementation of the Common Core State Standards, upgraded curriculum standards for students with disabilities and English language learners, and further development of our curriculum-based assessments (CBA’s).  Raising the WKCE benchmarks is part of a strategic effort to ensure our children are ready for college and careers in today’s rapidly changing, global society and economy.

Because of these benchmark score changes, WKCE results will show a decline in the number of students considered to be “proficient” or “advanced.”  This does not reflect a change in the abilities of students, but rather reflects the higher standards and aspirations we have for our students and schools.

The higher college and career readiness benchmarks will be reflected in Wisconsin’s new school accountability system.  Under this new system, students’ performance levels will be balanced with indicators regarding student growth, closing gaps between groups of students, and keeping students on track to graduation and postsecondary readiness.

Adjusting to higher aspirations and expectations will take some time, but this is a necessary change for a worthy purpose: to elevate the achievement of our students and their schools and is consistent with SDJ’s journey from good to great.   Together, we can all work to make sure every child graduates ready for college and career.

Middle and high school students will be receiving their individual WKCE results at their upcoming February conferences on February 27 and 28, 2013; elementary students will receive their WKCE results with their report cards on March 8, 2013.

Monday, February 18, 2013

Build Educational Dreams in Children

As we reflect on another President’s Day, one can only imagine the pride someone would feel watching his/her son or daughter recite the oath of office.  Parents want their children to have the best and be the best.  Helping children work toward success begins with helping them build on their dreams.

For many children, dreams begin at an early age.  Other children do not begin to dream of their future until they are teenagers.  Regardless of the child’s age, it’s important to encourage children to dream and to take steps to reach his/her dreams.

Encourage children to discuss their dreams for the future.  Ask open-ended questions that will draw them to talk about the future.  Ask them what they love to do and why.  Their dreams may sound impossible, but discouraging children will only damper their ambition.

Encourage young people to discover their talents.  Suggest that college-bound teenagers go to “college campus” weekends to meet college staff and gain an idea of what college will be like.

Be a part of your children’s education.  Let them know education is important by attending and participating in different activities at their school.

Encourage children to dream.  Build their self-esteem.  Let them know it is possible to achieve their dreams if they work hard enough! 

Friday, February 15, 2013

The State Awards Keep Coming!

Sixty-five Title I schools received Wisconsin Reward School honors last week to recognize student academic achievement and academic progress.  The School District of Janesville is very proud to announce that Jackson and Madison Elementary Schools have received this award!  The staff at each building was recognized this week.
“Congratulations to the teachers, school staff members, and families that work to support student achievement in these schools,” said State Superintendent Tony Evers. “These reward schools are models of our Agenda 2017 goals to improve graduation rates, reduce absenteeism and dropout rates, and close college and career-readiness gaps.”
As part of Wisconsin’s federal Elementary and Secondary Education Act (ESEA) waiver request, the Department of Public Instruction is required to identify Title I schools that are among the highest achieving in the state and those that have the most significant improvement in student achievement from one year to the next. Title I is a federal program to support schools serving low-income students.
Schools received recognition as High Achieving or High-Progress, with nine schools earning both designations. To be recognized, schools first must receive Title I aid because they have significant numbers of students from low-income families based on federal free- and reduced-price school meal income guidelines. All reward schools must have minimal achievement gaps on statewide assessments or show evidence of reducing gaps between student groups. Additionally, reward schools must meet the state’s test participation, attendance, and dropout goals.
In addition to the basic criteria, the 11 High-Achieving Rewards Schools earned a “Significantly Exceeds Expectations” accountability score on their Wisconsin School Report Cards and met all Annual Measurable Objectives for all students and all subgroups of students. The High-Progress Reward Schools earned a “Meets Expectations,” “Exceeds Expectations,” or “Significantly Exceeds Expectations” accountability rating on the Wisconsin School Report Card. Additionally, the elementary and middle schools were in the top 10 percent of Title I schools experiencing student achievement growth in reading and mathematics and the high schools were in the top 10 percent of Title I schools with the greatest improvement in graduation rates. There were 45 schools earning High-Progress awards.
This year’s Wisconsin Reward Schools include 55 elementary schools, four high schools, five charter schools, and one intermediate school. Rewards schools received a certificate of achievement signed by the state superintendent. Next fall, the Wisconsin Title I Schools of Recognition and Reward Schools programs will be combined.
The Official Wisconsin Department of Instruction press release can be accessed at the following address:

Thursday, February 14, 2013

Make a Commitment to Enroll in a Tax Sheltered Annuity

By: Tonya Williams
Employee Relations Specialist

As a School District of Janesville employee, you are enrolled in the Wisconsin Retirement System to provide you a pension once you retire.  Although this benefit is robust, one should consider other retirement tools to replace your pre-retirement income.  In fact, most financial planners will tell you that you need to replace 70 percent of your pre-retirement income in order to maintain your current lifestyle.

Currently, the School District of Janesville partners with WEA Trust and Retirement Plan Advisors (RPA) to provide financial planning to our staff, as well as provide the convenience of using payroll deductions to contribute to a tax-sheltered annuity vehicle.  In fact, the District has 440 staff members that currently contribute to a tax-sheltered annuity.

As a school district employee, there are many plans available for you.  A traditional 403(b) allows you to contribute pre-tax dollars into a retirement account.  You will benefit from reducing your taxable income, and will have a tax-deferred income in retirement.  A Roth 403(b) allows you a tax-free income in retirement while providing a tax-free growth.  A 457 Deferred compensation allows you to reduce your taxable income, and it provides income for employees retiring before age 59 ½.

What’s the first step to start saving for retirement?  As a District employee, you should contact David Mabie from WEA at 800-279-4030 or Angel Tullar from Retirement Plan Advisors at 608-531-0190 to set up an appointment.  Key financial points that both vendors will guide you through to strategize your retirement plan will be to decide your target retirement age and income, what tax-deferred savings vehicles are best for you, and if you should diversify your investments.

The sooner you begin investing for retirement, the more potential your retirement savings can grow by the time you reach retirement age, so make a commitment to start saving for your retirement today!

Wednesday, February 13, 2013

What's Right in the School District of Janesville

What’s Right in the School District of Janesville (SDJ) is a forum to recognize outstanding performances and achievements by SDJ employees, students and schools. Each week, between now and the end of the school year, SDJ will focus on positive achievements from a specific school.

Standing Room Only!

In December, Adams Elementary School had standing room only at all their Winter Sing shows! The gym was packed and the Adams students felt good about their performances!

Adams Students Participate in Community Service Projects!

Adams students participated in a joint community service project with other schools.  Students created cards for veterans for the holidays. This project was organized by Ms. Richter at Jefferson Elementary.

Adams Students Ready to Tee Off!

Carol Tyriver has completed training in The First Tee National School Golf Program.  Along with this national certification, Adams School will receive specialized golf equipment.  All students at Adams will participate in The First Tee golf instruction in the spring.  They will also be given the opportunity to continue golf lessons during the summer at a golf course in Janesville.  This wonderful opportunity is made possible by The First Tee of South Central Wisconsin. Thank you Mrs. Tyriver!

What is Infinite Campus?

In the 2011-2013 State of Wisconsin biennial budget, Governor Walker's administration worked with the Legislature to pass a law requiring a single, consistent Student Information System for all schools in Wisconsin. 

A digital student information system is at the core of how schools track information related to students, including:

· Enrollment

· Class Schedules

· Grades and Gradebooks

· Attendance and Discipline

· Special Education Records

· Pupil Health Records

Previous to the law requiring a single software solution, Wisconsin was highly fragmented and frequently at a disadvantage with State and Federal reporting requirements; there were many software solutions used in our State's schools - none of which talked with one another. There wasn't "one voice."  Having a single solution across the State will solve many long-standing data issues that took extra time, extra effort, and extra cost. 

On Friday, February 1st, the State announced that it intended to award the contract for the Statewide Student Information System to Infinite Campus, which was the highest scoring proposer in the competitive request for proposal (RFP) process.   It should be noted that the law firm DeWitt, Ross and Stevens was accountable for conducting an extensive observation of the procurement, evaluation, and selection process. They reported, "The Evaluation Team unanimously recommended the contract be awarded to the highest scoring proposer.  The vendor recommendation was fair to all vendors, and consistent with the RFP and applicable state law."

For the School District of Janesville, this means moving to Infinite Campus over the next eighteen months.  The transition will involve significant work, but the value in the end will be worth the effort as there are many advantages with Infinite Campus's solution that exceed the possibilities of our current software.  We recognize that staff will need to be trained on a new digital gradebook program and that parents will need to learn a new parent portal. The new solution is cloud based, so student information becomes available to staff, parents, and students alike from any Internet connected device.  

Led by the Chief Information Officer, a team of principals and staff members will begin to plan the transition from our current software to Infinite Campus.  Assuming all goes as planned; we expect to complete the transition to Infinite Campus no later than August, 2014.  While the costs for the new software have not been announced, Infinite Campus was the lowest cost bidder and as such, we are hopeful that our annual expenses will not increase. 

This is an exciting opportunity for the School District of Janesville.  The opportunity to consolidate our disparate databases into a single solution with greater staff, parent, and student access will only benefit our long-term efforts to improve student achievement and increase parent involvement, while creating greater staff efficiencies.

Monday, February 11, 2013

The Superintendent Chronicle: A Week in Review

To stay consistent with our focus on transparency, I believe that it is important to keep district staff and the community up-to-date on the decisions that are being made. I will be reporting each Monday, through this blog, on the important events that occurred the previous week in a series titled “The Superintendent Chronicle: A Week in Review”. This blog reviews what was a high priority for me the week before and explains the “why” behind important district decisions.

Superintendent Schulte met with the Alumni committee – Dave DiStephano, chairperson.   The Alumni Committee would like to connect with groups that are having reunions this year.  Please pass this on so alumni can connect with Dave or me.

Meetings outside the district:  Superintendent Schulte met with Carrie Kulinski, Director of the Boys and Girls Club, PDS: the Chief Technology Officer and other staff and the Superintendent of Coleman School District.

The Superintendent is working with the Human Resources Department to bring a calendar recommendation to the Personnel/Policy/Curriculum Committee on 2/20/13.  She is making sure all employee voices are heard.

Teacher Leadership is an Essential Component to Academic Excellence

I am encouraged by the School District of Janesville’s (SDJ) grassroots attempts to plant and grow teachers in school leadership positions. At Parker High School, students and staff have already benefited from the leadership and service of our teacher leaders developing our Talented and Gifted (TAG) services and Common-Based Assessments (CBAs). The leadership of these teachers melds our staff as colleagues recognize these leaders are the ones most in tune with students’ and teachers’ perspectives. These teacher leaders also remain better connected to students and educators by staying in the professional field.

~ Steve Streiker, PHS Teacher “Grassroots Leadership, Teacher-Led Schools” (2/1/2013)

When Steve Streiker first sent me his e mail on teacher leaders in our district, I responded back, “You have to Blog this.”  I am in total agreement with Steve that teacher-leaders have been instrumental and are beneficial to our district. In fact, in many of our different employee groups leaders often emerge to train, mentor and implement ideas that our administrators cannot begin to address.  I would like to see a future system where employees taking on leadership roles can be paid an extra stipend (where not already occurring) for the contribution of their skillset. 

Many employees have special areas of expertise, but are not interested in the time commitment to being an administrator or manager. This is a way for employees to use their talents and still be involved in day to day operations or close involvement with children.

I believe it is important to continue to develop leadership skills no matter where you are in your employment journey.  The administrative team has benefited from realizing they never arrive as leaders, but are continuously growing and developing as leaders.

Thank you, Steve, for your excellent Blog and helping us to think outside of the box.

Friday, February 8, 2013

Rumor Has It…

A “rumor” is "an unverified account or explanation of events circulating from person to person and pertaining to an object, event, or issue in public concern.

“Rumor has it the salary and benefit package is going to be horrible.”

“Rumor has it your salary is going to be cut in half.”

“Rumor has it the staff with the most seniority will be let go because their wages are too high.”

“Rumor has it it’s going to be ugly.”

The weather has turned cold and the snow is piling up.  The snow, rather “Snowball Effect”, is also affecting some of our staff members and employees.  The Snowball Effect is something people use to describe a situation that starts small and gradually builds up, consuming everything in its path.

There have been numerous rumors circulating through our buildings and community regarding the upcoming Employee Handbook and especially with employee benefits.  Some of these rumors are listed above.  If you are one of the people pushing the “snowball”, please stop.  There is nothing further from the truth.

As you know, the final approval for the Employee Handbook comes from the Janesville School Board.  I will give my recommendation to the Board, but the ultimate decision lies with them.  I spend a lot of time with Board members and I have never heard any of them make any comments such as the ones listed above as “rumors.” 

I can understand that these rumors may have started because there are so many unknowns about the decisions and direction of employee benefits, wages, and salaries at this time.  Even I cannot always predict the unknowns but what I can do is share with you those things that I know. 

First, I do know that the Board cares about each and every employee. They want the School District of Janesville to be a place that retains, recruits, and rewards employees that are high performing and effective.  They also need to be responsible stewards of the District’s resources. They take this responsibility very seriously.

Now let’s talk about what you can expect. All employees should be aware that a deduction will be paid out of wages to assist with the Wisconsin Retirement System (WRS) contribution.  In fact, all non-represented employees of the District have been contributing to WRS already and currently they pay half of the WRS contribution with the District contributing the other half.  For your information, contribution rates for Wisconsin Retirement System (WRS) employees and employers have increased from 11.8% to 13.3% starting January, 2013.  If employees need help calculating their individual contribution, they can contact our payroll department at Extensions 5051 or 5052.
Next, are health premium contributions. As most of you are aware, health insurance has been discussed and it appears the Board is contemplating a 10% premium share. While this is not locked in, I haven’t heard the premium will be any higher than 12%.

Employees currently contribute $17.00 per month for single coverage. Under the proposed plan singles would pay nothing per month if they chose the HRA plan which has the higher deductible. Employees would pay about $40.00 more per month if they choose the either the PPO plan with a $500.00 deductible or the $100.00 deductible Mercy EPO plan. Depending on the plan employee chooses, the monthly premium share will range from a savings of $17.00 per month to an increase of around $23.00 per month. 

If an employee has a full family plan, they are currently contributing about $43.00 per month. Under the proposed plan the employees on a family plan would pay about $85.00 per month if they chose the HRA plan (which has the higher deductible.  Employees will pay about $126.00 per month if they choose the $500.00 deductible PPO plan or pay about $118.00 per month if you choose the Mercy EPO plan. Depending on the family plan the employee chooses, the monthly increase will range from $42.00 per month up to about $83.00 per month.  It is important to note that most districts have seen increases in employees’ premium shares and what the SDJ is looking at is comparatively small.  

Finally, let’s talk about wages and salaries. You may have noticed that there is a shift occurring around salaries and wages tied to performance in the District.  We have already made movement towards a performance based salary framework with the Administrators and Coordinators starting with the 2013-2014 school year.   As for all other employees, there is no recommendation for sweeping cuts across the District in salaries and wages.  However, my recommendation is that if an employee has been informed by their supervisor of their low performance a change in salary will be considered.

I encourage everyone to ask questions rather than speculate.  I remind you to send your questions and suggestions to the Employee Handbook email account.  We read each message and send a personal response. It is easy to access: 

All employees have direct access to the superintendent or each Board member through e mail, text, phone call or private meeting.